Here's what the Pope said. Read it all, in context.
I don’t normally jump into “Pope-splaining”. I will be the first to agree that his Holiness has said some head-scratching things during his pontificate. But I don’t see the knee-jerk reaction to the above speech at the end of his trip to Indonesia as being justified.
Can it be read uncharitably as a sort of universalism? Yes.
Does that fit the context of the gathering, the trip, and the magisterium? No.
Indonesia is the largest Muslim country in the world. But it is not like most of the Muslim countries we’ve spent the last 34 years fixated on in the Middle east. They have a Christian minority, and by most measures, they manage to live in peace with each other. Francis wants to highlight this. It’s an essential first step. If we can live next to each other without shooting at each other, maybe we can talk to each other.
Context matters. If some of the people bewailing this latest comment as universalism and questioning the Pope’s faith were to speak to the interfaith gathering instead of his Holiness, would they give you the time of day? Is your hardline reaction going to build bridges? Probably not.
If your 13 year old says “all religions lead to God” at the dinner table one night, are you going to send them to their room without dessert, or inquire as to what they mean. Because words mean things, and sometimes, they mean different things.
“All religions lead to God” meaning “it doesn’t matter, just pick one and go” is not true. This is the belief of the “spiritual but not religious” crowd who just want to feel good so they over-simplify.
“All religions lead to God” meaning what Hebrews 11:6 tells us, “For whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.” then yes. If we seek him with sincere hearts, we can only start where we can start. For me, it was in an anabaptist church in Indiana. I got to Rome, eventually, but it was a long, winding road and took me over 30 years.
The Pope is winding up the longest trip of his pontificate to the largest Muslim nation in the world, and he’s been welcomed and well received. We should be celebrating and praying that this kind of living side by side would spread. Evangelization by violence isn’t a very effective tactic. Actual dialogue can get us somewhere, but, unfortunately, in the West, we seem to have forgotten how to do that.
When Jesus was asked about the woman caught in adultery, he did not try to placate the mob, neither did he condone the action of the woman.
It is nice that the Pope was sensitive to the feelings in non-Catholics in Indonesia but upholding the truth about the Faith as the only way to the Father was not pointed out.
Only one side got their way, but Catholic faith it seems was not uphold.
I appreciate the line about how other faiths may be viewed as a "preparation for the Gospel." That would seem to account for the fact that catechesis and spiritual formation will necessitate parting with old ways &/or idols. But unfortunately, I also agree that Francis didn't really use any language like that.
The problem lies in the fact that Pope Francis believes he is expressing proper ecumenism in his statements. His understanding of proselytizing is as fantastically overblown as US politics and modernist science melodrama.
They should really look into what they are feeding him at The Vatican.
Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims.. You pass over the Jews, whose claim to monotheism is the same as the Muslims; being the claim, the covenant, of Abraham. The Muslims are descended spiritually (and in the Muslim Arabs by blood) from Ishmael, the elder son. The Jews claim their descent (both spiritual and by blood) from Abraham through the younger sons Issac and Jacob, then more specifically through Judah. Their claim of friendship with God is particular to themselves, excluding Christians and “the nations” who many Jews say are of Esau and Edom, of Amalak, nations of perdition excluded from God’s covenant.
John Paul II referred to Jews as “our elder brethren in the Faith,” which I’ve always found amusing: the elder brother always being the one rejected by God.. Bearing the mark of Cain, the guilt of Joseph’s elder brothers, the illegitimacy of Ishmael, the carnality of Esau, the diffidence of David’s elder brothers.. We, the younger brethren gain precedence by way of grace, by offering the correct sacrifice of the paschal lamb under the appearance of bread (unifying, sanctifying both Abel and Cain’s offerings), by receiving and forgiving our criminal elder brethren graciously when we attain power, reconciling Ishmael by receiving our king by born by a virgin in the dispersed and Schismatic Northern Kingdom of Galilee, overcoming both Esau’s carnality and David’s brothers’ diffidence by ardent embrace of grace..
The Jews are still hewing to the oral (Talmudic, pharisaic) law that Christ and Paul condemned, and chasing after pagan idols in their practice of the cabalistic Zohar and other hermetic traditions.
By diluting the tenets of Christianity he's helpfully laying the groundwork for the eventual synthesis of world faiths into the desired (by all good globalists!) One World Religion. He's doing the job he's presumably been tasked with.
Here's what the Pope said. Read it all, in context.
I don’t normally jump into “Pope-splaining”. I will be the first to agree that his Holiness has said some head-scratching things during his pontificate. But I don’t see the knee-jerk reaction to the above speech at the end of his trip to Indonesia as being justified.
Can it be read uncharitably as a sort of universalism? Yes.
Does that fit the context of the gathering, the trip, and the magisterium? No.
Indonesia is the largest Muslim country in the world. But it is not like most of the Muslim countries we’ve spent the last 34 years fixated on in the Middle east. They have a Christian minority, and by most measures, they manage to live in peace with each other. Francis wants to highlight this. It’s an essential first step. If we can live next to each other without shooting at each other, maybe we can talk to each other.
Context matters. If some of the people bewailing this latest comment as universalism and questioning the Pope’s faith were to speak to the interfaith gathering instead of his Holiness, would they give you the time of day? Is your hardline reaction going to build bridges? Probably not.
If your 13 year old says “all religions lead to God” at the dinner table one night, are you going to send them to their room without dessert, or inquire as to what they mean. Because words mean things, and sometimes, they mean different things.
“All religions lead to God” meaning “it doesn’t matter, just pick one and go” is not true. This is the belief of the “spiritual but not religious” crowd who just want to feel good so they over-simplify.
“All religions lead to God” meaning what Hebrews 11:6 tells us, “For whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.” then yes. If we seek him with sincere hearts, we can only start where we can start. For me, it was in an anabaptist church in Indiana. I got to Rome, eventually, but it was a long, winding road and took me over 30 years.
The Pope is winding up the longest trip of his pontificate to the largest Muslim nation in the world, and he’s been welcomed and well received. We should be celebrating and praying that this kind of living side by side would spread. Evangelization by violence isn’t a very effective tactic. Actual dialogue can get us somewhere, but, unfortunately, in the West, we seem to have forgotten how to do that.
I can't find the popes actual remarks. Do you have a link?
Yes, sorry, the link must not have copied.
https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/events/event.dir.html/content/vaticanevents/en/2024/9/13/singapore-giovani.html
When Jesus was asked about the woman caught in adultery, he did not try to placate the mob, neither did he condone the action of the woman.
It is nice that the Pope was sensitive to the feelings in non-Catholics in Indonesia but upholding the truth about the Faith as the only way to the Father was not pointed out.
Only one side got their way, but Catholic faith it seems was not uphold.
The attempted reconciliation of Francis' word with the Catechism of the Catholic Church fails utterly; it's not what he said. He "gave away the farm."
Thanks for this.
I appreciate the line about how other faiths may be viewed as a "preparation for the Gospel." That would seem to account for the fact that catechesis and spiritual formation will necessitate parting with old ways &/or idols. But unfortunately, I also agree that Francis didn't really use any language like that.
https://substack.com/home/post/p-145573873?r=1nm0v2&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
The problem lies in the fact that Pope Francis believes he is expressing proper ecumenism in his statements. His understanding of proselytizing is as fantastically overblown as US politics and modernist science melodrama.
They should really look into what they are feeding him at The Vatican.
Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims.. You pass over the Jews, whose claim to monotheism is the same as the Muslims; being the claim, the covenant, of Abraham. The Muslims are descended spiritually (and in the Muslim Arabs by blood) from Ishmael, the elder son. The Jews claim their descent (both spiritual and by blood) from Abraham through the younger sons Issac and Jacob, then more specifically through Judah. Their claim of friendship with God is particular to themselves, excluding Christians and “the nations” who many Jews say are of Esau and Edom, of Amalak, nations of perdition excluded from God’s covenant.
John Paul II referred to Jews as “our elder brethren in the Faith,” which I’ve always found amusing: the elder brother always being the one rejected by God.. Bearing the mark of Cain, the guilt of Joseph’s elder brothers, the illegitimacy of Ishmael, the carnality of Esau, the diffidence of David’s elder brothers.. We, the younger brethren gain precedence by way of grace, by offering the correct sacrifice of the paschal lamb under the appearance of bread (unifying, sanctifying both Abel and Cain’s offerings), by receiving and forgiving our criminal elder brethren graciously when we attain power, reconciling Ishmael by receiving our king by born by a virgin in the dispersed and Schismatic Northern Kingdom of Galilee, overcoming both Esau’s carnality and David’s brothers’ diffidence by ardent embrace of grace..
The Jews are still hewing to the oral (Talmudic, pharisaic) law that Christ and Paul condemned, and chasing after pagan idols in their practice of the cabalistic Zohar and other hermetic traditions.
By diluting the tenets of Christianity he's helpfully laying the groundwork for the eventual synthesis of world faiths into the desired (by all good globalists!) One World Religion. He's doing the job he's presumably been tasked with.
I just posted this on Francis' fantastic comment:
https://markmarshall.substack.com/p/is-every-religion-a-way-to-arrive